Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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I had an idea a while back, and I've been making some fishing lures in my shop. There's nothing real revolutionary about my idea - it's just a different way of designing and building a lure using materials that are different from what I've ever seen used.
Now I'm in the "testing" stage - taking them to the lake and making sure everything holds together and that they catch fish (a tough job, but someone's got to do it). That's working out real well, and I think what I've got amounts to a small but significant improvement in my fishing (and catching).
When I'm completely satisfied with these lures, I'd like to start selling them on eBay and get a web page so people could order them from me. Just a little enterprise on the side for a retired guy.
But I'm wondering if it's possible to keep the idea from being copied. Once these are out in public, it would be real easy for any tackle company to copy them.
There are a lot of people on this forum with expertise in different areas. Does anyone here know how I could protect something like this - so I could make and sell the lures at a reasonable price instead of just having the design taken away from me? Thanks.
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BiteMe
member
Reged: 12/17/05
Posts: 12
Loc: SW Misouri
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I don't think you will be able to protect them. Cabela's has been selling knockoffs of Reef Runners for over a year and getting away with it. If a fairly large manufacturer like Reef Runner can't protect their product I don't see how you will be able to.
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The BiteMe Tracker
http://www.mo-walleye.org
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Tigerhaze
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 405
Loc: Deepwater Creek Country
Current High Scores in:
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Welcome to the world of patents.... 
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"Dyin' ain't much of a living, boy."~ Josey Wales
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moduckdoc
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 2940
Loc: A porn site
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You can make all the paperwork right adn still get taken to the cleaners. Hell Boog has obviously been doing it for years. Make it first, make it best, sell as many as you can off of your reputation and make as much as you can as early as you can before the knock-offs force you to cut your margin.
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Freedom it isn't free, but it is worth every drop
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Forsythian
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 435
Loc: Nether Regions
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I agree with what's been said... Patents are easy to write, but they're expensive and hard to enforce...
Unless it's something truly revolutionary, when you're ahead it's better to just look forward and stay out in front.
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Sweep the leg.
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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Thanks fellers. The idea isn't something radically different or revolutionary - it's just an improvement. I'm sure what you're all saying is right.
Heck, I'm the same way - I decided several years ago that I like Bass Pro's "Uncle Buck" knockoffs better than original Roostertails, so that's what I buy. The free market ought to be just that, free and competitive.
So I'll go ahead with these lures, it's probably not something that will catch on anyway. Most ideas don't. And if it does catch on, I can at least call mine "the original".
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IIFID
Bond....Timmy Bond
Reged: 12/15/05
Posts: 8010
Loc: Nipawin, Saskatchewan
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Ozark,
Care to share what it is and what the improvement is? There is a good chance that there may be some on hera that would be your first customers! Is this a species specific type bait i.e designed to catch bass or walleye? Is it a surface, subsurface, deep diving? Crankbait, spinner bait, spoon,....
Details man, details.... Congrats on the design improvement. If you'd prefer to PM the info, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
IIFID
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Thought for the day; “It’s impossible to think outside of the box when all you do is think about getting inside of the box.”
Edited by IIFID (03/03/06 02:53 PM)
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Whackattack
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 2554
Loc: Farmington, Mo
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New lures aren't designed to catch fish....They are designed to catch fishermen.
With that being said, put me down for a few Ozark. If they work at all I prolly could find a new tackle box to fill with them.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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have you tried Harry Krishna?
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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Ozark,
there's a definite time period you have to adhere to in order to patent something, a patent attorney can help you, but if you've been using these lures for any amount of time, then you can forget the patent. Also, if it isn't an actual new idea, you can likely forget the patent.
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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Quote:
Whackattack said:
New lures aren't designed to catch fish....They are designed to catch fishermen.
That's because fish don't have any money! (How's that for a Willie Sutton comment?)
All I'm saying at the moment is that they're improved crappie jigs that use new materials for both the jig body and tail. That improves the fall rate and action, and gives the jig some extra "flash" also. It catches fish, that's for sure.
But I've got some bugs to work out. I took 'em fishing yesterday and caught a bunch of crappie and a 15" Kentucky bass - but I had a couple of jigs fall apart. I've got some work to do before they're ready to offer for sale.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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Ozark,
you won't be able to get a patent. And you won't be able to protect that should someone want to knock it off.
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IIFID
Bond....Timmy Bond
Reged: 12/15/05
Posts: 8010
Loc: Nipawin, Saskatchewan
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Ozark,
Just because I am a great guy and a humanitarian... I hereby offer to serve as a tester for you. No Charge. 
IIFID
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Thought for the day; “It’s impossible to think outside of the box when all you do is think about getting inside of the box.”
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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Lure-making must be just like my homebrewing - everyone I know wants to be a tester.
Maybe I'll pick my NEXT inventions so I don't get so much of that. I'm thinking of a do-your-own vasectomy kit, or an at-home self-circumciser machine.
Just try it out, and let me know how things went.
Volunteers? C'mon fellas!
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IIFID
Bond....Timmy Bond
Reged: 12/15/05
Posts: 8010
Loc: Nipawin, Saskatchewan
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I volunteer to make sure PitPaul uses it!
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Thought for the day; “It’s impossible to think outside of the box when all you do is think about getting inside of the box.”
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dabs
Reged: 12/13/05
Posts: 5971188
Loc: New Money, USA
Current High Scores in:
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Ozark -
My grandfather was an entrepeneour...this is what he did on three of four different things, nothing that came too popular...but this is what he did.
He took the plans to his ideas and put them in an envelope....sent them to himself certified sign receipt mail so it had an official date and time stamp on it from the US postal service. He then just put the mail in the drawer unopened.
If someone he presented his idea to stole it from him, he would have the proof through that documentation that he had the idea before them. Maybe instead of marketing it yourself, you make the prototypes to make sure they work and then approach one of the bigger companies and look at royalties????
When it comes to patents, that only will protect you from someone making the same thing. If you use screw "a" and hook "v" and they change it to screw "m" and hook "w" - plus they make a small change on the lip or the tail....it really isn't your patent...even though it is the same concept.
If you can show someone stole your concept though, that is more better....or so my grandfather always said. It worked for him in one instance.
dab
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Hellbender
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County
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Quote:
He took the plans to his ideas and put them in an envelope....sent them to himself certified sign receipt mail so it had an official date and time stamp on it from the US postal service.
I had a friend who dabbled in song writing and that is what he did. He told me that was what most independents did, so it must have worked. He did say however that you had to make an attempt to get a song published and exposed, you couldn't just put ideas in a box.
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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.
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True Son
Reged: 03/22/06
Posts: 2
Loc: St. Louis
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Hey Ozark,
Liberty is right. You have one year to get a patent application on file after selling, offering for sale, describing your invention in a publication, or publically using your invention. Call a patent attorney asap.
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lying_in_wait
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1637
Loc: Choot 'Em!
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What Dabs described is known as a "poor man's patent". I still have one sealed up in a drawer from a concept I tried to patent back in college. It can really only protect you if you also include a disclosure document with it that shows that you have publicly or privately shared your idea with another party. If someone else legitimatly comes up with the same thing, merely having your idea written down somewhere does nothing for you unless you can proove that others knew about it.
Since your idea is not something radically different and new, but rather an improvement to and existing product, I would not waste any time and money chasing a patent. The process is more complicated and expensive than you might think and there are usually multiple attorneys, consultants and other parties who will all get a cut of any money and royalties you make in addition to what they charge you up front. Even if you succeed in getting a patent and get it on the market, if it becomes a hot item it's only a matter of time before one of the big chains knocks it off and puts you under. How many times have you seen a hot new product show up in a Cabelas catalog and then the next season it's gone, but coincidentally they have a Cabelas brand product that is nearly identical to it.
What I would do is take your idea to Cabelas or Bass Pro and offer to sell your idea to them or lisence them to manufacture and market it. It's easy enough to have then sign a disclosure document at the time so if they turn you down and then rip off your idea you have all the evidence you need to sue for compensation. Thats what I wish I had done with my idea back then because there was a window of about 7 or 8 years where it would have been hot before other products came out that have obsoleted it.
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Shawn Wheaton
Missouri Waterfowl Association
Westside Chapter Chairman
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Duckv
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 126
Loc: You see that sign says Riiib T...
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You oughta call a patent attorney. There is obviously money to be made in designing lures. If you have a good idea, protect it.
BTW, Here's what snopes says about the poor man's patent
Duckv
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griffin
administrator
Reged: 12/13/05
Posts: 9571
Loc: the most dangerous city in Ame...
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Dammit.....now we got attorneys checking things out on snopes.
I ain't never met a lawyer who didn't tell you that you should contact a lawyer. 
griffin
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"The Irish are one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." - Sigmund Freud
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dabs
Reged: 12/13/05
Posts: 5971188
Loc: New Money, USA
Current High Scores in:
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When I was fresh out of school and had lots of idle time sittin around the firehouse I used to do leatherwork. Helmet shields, belts, holsters...that kinda stuff.
Me and another guy came up with a security back then and most of the local "coppers"  used the design.
We thought we should patent the idea and become rich....well, we spent $925.00 in lawyer fees with patent searches, pre-fee's for this and that and never ended up getting a damn thing because of mo money mo money....patents make attorneys rich, not inventors
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Duckv
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 126
Loc: You see that sign says Riiib T...
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Quote:
griffin said:
Dammit.....now we got attorneys checking things out on snopes.
I ain't never met a lawyer who didn't tell you that you should contact a lawyer.
griffin
Weeellll, you still aint met an attorney who is going to do research about a "poor man's patent" to post on the cafe.  But, I do know a patent attorney who has a number of garage inventor clients who have made a whole lot of money off of their ideas. Luckily for him, they were gullible enough to pay him to patent their idea.
Now, if Ozark's got a good idea, and he starts selling it on ebay and the next thing he knows he sees it on the rack under a different brand name at BPS while he's picking up some Uncle Bucks beef jerky and a cough silencer, I just don't want him to be too disappointed when he shows up at Johnny Morris' house with a lure in an envelope and is told to pound sand. I'll bet he'll want a lawyer's advice then.
As for a cop telling someone they don't need a lawyers advice, gee, that's novel.
Duckv 
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griffin
administrator
Reged: 12/13/05
Posts: 9571
Loc: the most dangerous city in Ame...
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Quote:
Duckv said:
As for a cop telling someone they don't need a lawyers advice, gee, that's novel.
What the hell are you talking about.....ain't you ever heard of Miranda??
griffin
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"The Irish are one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." - Sigmund Freud
Edited by griffin (03/26/06 03:21 AM)
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Duckv
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 126
Loc: You see that sign says Riiib T...
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I defended her once on a solicitation case. Nice girl, just couldn't stay clean. Left titty was about twice as big as the right. Had a tendency to hook the ball off the tee.
Yeah, you're right. Advising a person that they have the right to an attorney is the same as advising them to get an attorney. I'm sure you watch officers at your department all the time tell suspects to stop talking and get an attorney before they get themselves in trouble.
But, you'll be surprised to know, that at some departments, officers tell folks things like "you don't need an attorney" and "just tell us what happened and we'll let you go home."
At least that's what my friends who handle criminal defense work tell me.
Duckv
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